Comments on: Q and A: Obama's reversal on the torture photos http://securityfiles.blogs.cnn.com/2009/05/14/q-and-a-obamas-reversal-on-the-torture-photos/ Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:31:02 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Teredo http://securityfiles.blogs.cnn.com/2009/05/14/q-and-a-obamas-reversal-on-the-torture-photos/#comment-1047 Teredo Tue, 09 Jun 2009 03:24:42 +0000 http://securityfiles.blogs.cnn.com/?p=437#comment-1047 As the members of the Bush administration were guilty of breaking both US and international laws by condoning torture, one wonders why they have not been charged with crimes against humanity. Maybe the have been kissing the rear ends of the Zionists in Israel for so long they figured they could follow their game plan. As the members of the Bush administration were guilty of breaking both US and international laws by condoning torture, one wonders why they have not been charged with crimes against humanity. Maybe the have been kissing the rear ends of the Zionists in Israel for so long they figured they could follow their game plan.

]]> By: Billy http://securityfiles.blogs.cnn.com/2009/05/14/q-and-a-obamas-reversal-on-the-torture-photos/#comment-1041 Billy Thu, 21 May 2009 14:32:52 +0000 http://securityfiles.blogs.cnn.com/?p=437#comment-1041 This kinda stuff makes me sooo angry, How many of you people have ever been in a combat zone? Tom, you say we shouldn't stoop to their level, let me get this straight, so if I'm an american soldier, and a militant, or insurgent, fires his rifle in my direction with the intent to kill, that I should not fire back, with the intent to kill as well, UNDERSTAND, THIS TURN THE OTHER CHEEK STUFF DOES NOT WORK IN WAR, IN A COMBAT ZONE IF YOU DO NOT KILL YOUR ENEMY FIRST, HE WILL KILL YOU. As far as the torture stuff goes, its like this, would a militant think twice about torturing an american trooper for information? The answer is No, he wouldn't think twice about it. In fact, his torture techniques are 10 times worse than ours ever could be. No, were not talking waterboarding, or locking someone in a box with insects. No, We're talking about folks getting the hell beat out of them, kept on the edge of death, men and women getting just enough medical treatment to be kept alive, and then when the militants get the information they need, getting killed. Now, I understand, the UCMJ, and understand the Geneva convention. Its like it always is, the folks who never see the battlefield, and the ones who make the rules in war. LETS GET THIS STRAIGHT, THERE ARE NO RULES IN WAR, YOU DON'T GET A 15 MINUTE BREAK TO SMOKE A CIGARETTE, YOU DON'T GET TO GO THE SODA MACHINE, TO GET A COKE. American troops cannot protect us if we do not give them the means, to proect us with. The Geneva convention was made and drawn up by Civilized nations, after World War II, back then there weren't Islamic fundamentalists, and if there were, they weren't powerful enough to cause a problem. Terrorism came about in the 1960's and 1970's after the Geneva convention was put into place. That's why today we have Seal Team 6, and Delta Force, as their primary purpose is anti-terrorism. It seems you people forget, what this war is about in the first place, the people who were tortured were apart of that group called Al-Qaida, who hijacked commercial jets and ran them into civilian buildings, killing thousands of people, on American soil. Obviously, these men, and women could give two shits about what is ethical. Lets put the shoe on the other foot for a moment, if someone kidnapped your child, and one of the kidnappers, was in your custody, not in police custody, but your custody, inside your home, tell me you wouldn't do whatever you needed to do in order to find out where your child was, including, waterboarding, starvation, hell, you might even include breaking bones into that equation. I'll tell you the answer of course you would, you would do anything you could to make the person talk, in order to save your child's life. Did you act in an immoral way toward the kidnapper? Of course, you did. But, it quite possibly saved your child's life. Well, these torture tactics used on Al-Qaida operatives, is the very same thing, did the U.S. government use immoral tactics to get information? Yeah, they did, but if they hadn't and some plan set up by Al-Qaida was set into motion, its possible that some of you, commenting in this blog, would not be able to comment at all. Now I have seen this in the news recently, more people are against the war than ever before. When 9/11 happened there was a public outcry, people wanted revenge, people wanted to string the militants up by their necks, but now that we have gone to war, against those same people, and that war has lasted, people are against it. Your nothing but a bunch of hippocrites, what if we could go back in time, and capture one of the 9/11 terrorists before the attack happened, do we torture him, to learn what he knows, of the attacks to prevent them from happening, or do we not torture him, remain oblivious to their plans, and let thousands die. Well my rant is over. I have nothing more to say. Billy This kinda stuff makes me sooo angry, How many of you people have ever been in a combat zone? Tom, you say we shouldn't stoop to their level, let me get this straight, so if I'm an american soldier, and a militant, or insurgent, fires his rifle in my direction with the intent to kill, that I should not fire back, with the intent to kill as well, UNDERSTAND, THIS TURN THE OTHER CHEEK STUFF DOES NOT WORK IN WAR, IN A COMBAT ZONE IF YOU DO NOT KILL YOUR ENEMY FIRST, HE WILL KILL YOU. As far as the torture stuff goes, its like this, would a militant think twice about torturing an american trooper for information? The answer is No, he wouldn't think twice about it. In fact, his torture techniques are 10 times worse than ours ever could be. No, were not talking waterboarding, or locking someone in a box with insects. No, We're talking about folks getting the hell beat out of them, kept on the edge of death, men and women getting just enough medical treatment to be kept alive, and then when the militants get the information they need, getting killed. Now, I understand, the UCMJ, and understand the Geneva convention. Its like it always is, the folks who never see the battlefield, and the ones who make the rules in war. LETS GET THIS STRAIGHT, THERE ARE NO RULES IN WAR, YOU DON'T GET A 15 MINUTE BREAK TO SMOKE A CIGARETTE, YOU DON'T GET TO GO THE SODA MACHINE, TO GET A COKE. American troops cannot protect us if we do not give them the means, to proect us with. The Geneva convention was made and drawn up by Civilized nations, after World War II, back then there weren't Islamic fundamentalists, and if there were, they weren't powerful enough to cause a problem. Terrorism came about in the 1960's and 1970's after the Geneva convention was put into place. That's why today we have Seal Team 6, and Delta Force, as their primary purpose is anti-terrorism. It seems you people forget, what this war is about in the first place, the people who were tortured were apart of that group called Al-Qaida, who hijacked commercial jets and ran them into civilian buildings, killing thousands of people, on American soil. Obviously, these men, and women could give two shits about what is ethical. Lets put the shoe on the other foot for a moment, if someone kidnapped your child, and one of the kidnappers, was in your custody, not in police custody, but your custody, inside your home, tell me you wouldn't do whatever you needed to do in order to find out where your child was, including, waterboarding, starvation, hell, you might even include breaking bones into that equation. I'll tell you the answer of course you would, you would do anything you could to make the person talk, in order to save your child's life. Did you act in an immoral way toward the kidnapper? Of course, you did. But, it quite possibly saved your child's life. Well, these torture tactics used on Al-Qaida operatives, is the very same thing, did the U.S. government use immoral tactics to get information? Yeah, they did, but if they hadn't and some plan set up by Al-Qaida was set into motion, its possible that some of you, commenting in this blog, would not be able to comment at all. Now I have seen this in the news recently, more people are against the war than ever before. When 9/11 happened there was a public outcry, people wanted revenge, people wanted to string the militants up by their necks, but now that we have gone to war, against those same people, and that war has lasted, people are against it. Your nothing but a bunch of hippocrites, what if we could go back in time, and capture one of the 9/11 terrorists before the attack happened, do we torture him, to learn what he knows, of the attacks to prevent them from happening, or do we not torture him, remain oblivious to their plans, and let thousands die. Well my rant is over. I have nothing more to say.

Billy

]]> By: farida http://securityfiles.blogs.cnn.com/2009/05/14/q-and-a-obamas-reversal-on-the-torture-photos/#comment-1029 farida Fri, 15 May 2009 07:45:09 +0000 http://securityfiles.blogs.cnn.com/?p=437#comment-1029 Tank you Obama for The Change .The chang of mind 111 Tank you Obama for The Change .The chang of mind 111

]]> By: Tom http://securityfiles.blogs.cnn.com/2009/05/14/q-and-a-obamas-reversal-on-the-torture-photos/#comment-1028 Tom Fri, 15 May 2009 05:03:17 +0000 http://securityfiles.blogs.cnn.com/?p=437#comment-1028 I learned a long time ago that all of Hitler's dirty work was legal, too; of course that's pretty easy to arrange when your a dictator. I seem to recall a recent president saying a lot of things were easier that way... Point is this - I don't care what the lawyers said, when they said the tactics were legal, they were flat out wrong. And individuals, last I checked, are still responsible for their actions, no matter what their lawyers told them. Every solder knows something from the Geneva conventions, and probably just about every CIA agent used to be a soldier/sailor/whatever, so, they've all heard it before that torture was illegal, period. It's very possible thast releasing the photos could cost lives. NOT releasing them would probably cost even more of them. If you want to stop validating the behavior of these terrorists, stop stooping to their level, release the photos, and make laddie daddie everybody who conducted, condoned, or provided cover (legal or otherwise) for tourture, to answer for it, with the full weight and sanction of the law. Oliver Wendal Holmes was right - Sunshine truly IS the best medicine. I learned a long time ago that all of Hitler's dirty work was legal, too; of course that's pretty easy to arrange when your a dictator. I seem to recall a recent president saying a lot of things were easier that way...

Point is this – I don't care what the lawyers said, when they said the tactics were legal, they were flat out wrong. And individuals, last I checked, are still responsible for their actions, no matter what their lawyers told them.

Every solder knows something from the Geneva conventions, and probably just about every CIA agent used to be a soldier/sailor/whatever, so, they've all heard it before that torture was illegal, period.

It's very possible thast releasing the photos could cost lives. NOT releasing them would probably cost even more of them.

If you want to stop validating the behavior of these terrorists, stop stooping to their level, release the photos, and make laddie daddie everybody who conducted, condoned, or provided cover (legal or otherwise) for tourture, to answer for it, with the full weight and sanction of the law.

Oliver Wendal Holmes was right – Sunshine truly IS the best medicine.

]]> By: Donald Persons http://securityfiles.blogs.cnn.com/2009/05/14/q-and-a-obamas-reversal-on-the-torture-photos/#comment-1027 Donald Persons Fri, 15 May 2009 03:00:39 +0000 http://securityfiles.blogs.cnn.com/?p=437#comment-1027 This is truly a connundrum. Morally, Americans should not be engaged in the first place in actions that are unconsitutional. The fact that those actions were sanctioned by Bush show how far down the road to legal demise Americans have come. The release of the photos demanded by the ACLU during the Bush administration was a call to accountability. I believe Obama has already decided not to pursue the prison guards over the matter. I have no problem with that, since people on the ground were acting on orders they received from above. They did so in ways that brought results for the intelligence community. Lives were scarred. Some were lost. Does the Obama government's decision in this matter, in order to deny fuel for extremist information warriors, in any way indicate that this will become a pattern of cover ups and face saving by the current US administration? I certainly hope Obama can reaffirm constitutional law and announce procedures that will increase such accountability. This will not achieve results in intelligence, but will achieve other benefits. This is truly a connundrum. Morally, Americans should not be engaged in the first place in actions that are unconsitutional. The fact that those actions were sanctioned by Bush show how far down the road to legal demise Americans have come.

The release of the photos demanded by the ACLU during the Bush administration was a call to accountability. I believe Obama has already decided not to pursue the prison guards over the matter. I have no problem with that, since people on the ground were acting on orders they received from above. They did so in ways that brought results for the intelligence community. Lives were scarred. Some were lost. Does the Obama government's decision in this matter, in order to deny fuel for extremist information warriors, in any way indicate that this will become a pattern of cover ups and face saving by the current US administration? I certainly hope Obama can reaffirm constitutional law and announce procedures that will increase such accountability. This will not achieve results in intelligence, but will achieve other benefits.

]]> By: Distant Smoke http://securityfiles.blogs.cnn.com/2009/05/14/q-and-a-obamas-reversal-on-the-torture-photos/#comment-1026 Distant Smoke Fri, 15 May 2009 01:15:53 +0000 http://securityfiles.blogs.cnn.com/?p=437#comment-1026 It's only OK when a DEMOCRAT says it's OK. It's only OK when a DEMOCRAT says it's OK.

]]> By: Udy Esset http://securityfiles.blogs.cnn.com/2009/05/14/q-and-a-obamas-reversal-on-the-torture-photos/#comment-1025 Udy Esset Thu, 14 May 2009 23:04:33 +0000 http://securityfiles.blogs.cnn.com/?p=437#comment-1025 OBAMA ADMINISTRATION NEED SOME TIME TO CLEAN UP THE EVIL PERPETRATED BY BUSH'S GOVT.AM SURE VERY SOON PEACE WILL RETURN TO AFGANISTAN AND IRAQ. OBAMA ADMINISTRATION NEED SOME TIME TO CLEAN UP THE EVIL PERPETRATED BY BUSH'S GOVT.AM SURE VERY SOON PEACE WILL RETURN TO AFGANISTAN AND IRAQ.

]]> By: ikechukwu oboegbulem http://securityfiles.blogs.cnn.com/2009/05/14/q-and-a-obamas-reversal-on-the-torture-photos/#comment-1024 ikechukwu oboegbulem Thu, 14 May 2009 22:41:12 +0000 http://securityfiles.blogs.cnn.com/?p=437#comment-1024 Since the people responsible for the abuse of prisoners have been sanctioned, I do not think it is necessary for the sake of showing transparency to make the pictures public. It would cause more problems than it would solve and would definitely embolden the terrorists. The ACLU do not see the big picture as the president does. Even though President Obama promised to be transparent, a foolish transparency that endangers the lives of soldiers and other Americans all over the world is uncalled for. Ikechukwu Festac, Lagos Since the people responsible for the abuse of prisoners have been sanctioned, I do not think it is necessary for the sake of showing transparency to make the pictures public. It would cause more problems than it would solve and would definitely embolden the terrorists. The ACLU do not see the big picture as the president does. Even though President Obama promised to be transparent, a foolish transparency that endangers the lives of soldiers and other Americans all over the world is uncalled for.

Ikechukwu
Festac, Lagos

]]> By: Luis Fernando Vallejo http://securityfiles.blogs.cnn.com/2009/05/14/q-and-a-obamas-reversal-on-the-torture-photos/#comment-1023 Luis Fernando Vallejo Thu, 14 May 2009 22:05:12 +0000 http://securityfiles.blogs.cnn.com/?p=437#comment-1023 Mas que querer ver las fotos (y con esto aumentar el morbo y el sensacionalismo de los medios) la comunidad internacional reclama de Obama un castigo ejemplar a las personas que torturaron pero en especial, a las personas que dieron las instrucciones de hacerlo. Mas que querer ver las fotos (y con esto aumentar el morbo y el sensacionalismo de los medios) la comunidad internacional reclama de Obama un castigo ejemplar a las personas que torturaron pero en especial, a las personas que dieron las instrucciones de hacerlo.

]]> By: Michael H. Standart http://securityfiles.blogs.cnn.com/2009/05/14/q-and-a-obamas-reversal-on-the-torture-photos/#comment-1022 Michael H. Standart Thu, 14 May 2009 18:48:10 +0000 http://securityfiles.blogs.cnn.com/?p=437#comment-1022 As a retired Navy man, I'm not in favour of doing anything which puts the troops in danger, however, the assertion that releasing the photos would endanger our troops is not one that I'm convinced is entirely valid. It's not as if the nominal Bad Guys don't know about this. They have cellphones, Internet access and even websites the same as anybody else, they listen to the news and that includes CNN, and they don't mind using those resources to promote their agenda. Hiding this doesn't hinder them, it serves them by letting them cry "Cover up." Whether such a claim is valid is of no consequence. What is of consequence is the perception that it is. We need to face this in an above the board manner and hold those responsible for the so-called "enhanced interrogation techiques" (And let's call it torture since that's exactly what it is!) accountable to the law and we do it for everybody to see. If the United States wants to CLAIM to be the Good Guys and get whatever moral authority which comes with BEING the Good Guys, then we need to BE the Good Guys. (Yes, you have my permission to state this on the air.) As a retired Navy man, I'm not in favour of doing anything which puts the troops in danger, however, the assertion that releasing the photos would endanger our troops is not one that I'm convinced is entirely valid. It's not as if the nominal Bad Guys don't know about this. They have cellphones, Internet access and even websites the same as anybody else, they listen to the news and that includes CNN, and they don't mind using those resources to promote their agenda.

Hiding this doesn't hinder them, it serves them by letting them cry "Cover up." Whether such a claim is valid is of no consequence. What is of consequence is the perception that it is.

We need to face this in an above the board manner and hold those responsible for the so-called "enhanced interrogation techiques" (And let's call it torture since that's exactly what it is!) accountable to the law and we do it for everybody to see.

If the United States wants to CLAIM to be the Good Guys and get whatever moral authority which comes with BEING the Good Guys, then we need to BE the Good Guys.

(Yes, you have my permission to state this on the air.)

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